News & insights / Insights / 30.09.25

Real Talk: Rethinking The Plate with More Plants and Less but Better Meat

Juliane Caillouette Noble (Managing Director, The SRA): Good morning, everyone! I’m so glad to be here. We’re having our first multilingual Real Talk conversation for Food Made Good. We’re here in beautiful Italy this morning, and I have our wonderful colleague Lucia with us to help facilitate our conversation in Italian today. I’m going to pass the microphone to you, Lucia, to introduce where we are this morning and let our guests introduce themselves.

Lucia Perasso (Sustainability Consultant, The SRA): Thanks, Juliane, so nice to all be together. Good morning! Here we are with Fabio and Vincenzo from Casa Format, in this magnificent place behind us, on what is also a beautiful day.

Today we’re talking about how restaurants can serve more vegetables and less meat — but better meat. Casa Format is doing really interesting things in this area, and so we’re here with Vincenzo and Fabio to talk about that. I’ll hand it over to you to tell us a bit about who you are, what you do and then we’ll get into the core of the conversation.

Fabio Grasso (Casa Format): Thank you. Yes, okay! I'm Fabio, I handle restaurant operations at Casa Format — managing the dining room and organising the staff. I’ve been part of the project since it opened in 2016. Over the years, I’ve tried to grow with the restaurant and with the culture of food sustainability, learning to interpret it in the best way and adapt it to our context.

Vincenzo Castronuovo (Casa Format): Hi, I’m Vincenzo, I’m responsible for the kitchen. In recent years we’ve taken important steps to respond to society’s current needs — focusing more on vegetables, without excluding meat or fish, but limiting their use, and only using what is really necessary and functional for the restaurant.

Lucia: It’s interesting that we’re here in Piedmont today, which is traditionally a region rich in animal products, especially where restaurants and hospitality are heavily meat-based. In your view, how is the situation changing in Italy — and especially here in Piedmont?

Fabio and Vincenzo: The restaurant scene is definitely following something of an international trend toward plant-forward cooking. It’s true that in Piedmont meat is used a lot, but it’s also true that, at a regional level, the culture is linked to home-style products — livestock people often kept themselves, a farming tradition. The problem arose when meat consumption became more commercial, especially in larger urban centres, where you don’t have your own animals and you have to rely on supermarket supply. So beyond just reducing how much meat we use, the goal is to reconnect consumers with more conscientious producers, rather than buying from a “box” when you don’t even know what’s inside.

Lucia: When we talk about 'less but better', how do you make sure the meat you serve is really both less, and better, in terms of the producers you work with? Surely there is more behind it than just writing a menu and creating new dishes?

Fabio and Vincenzo: We’re constantly in touch with producers, checking what’s available, whether it’s the right time of year to use a certain animal or not. From there, it’s our job to adapt and work with what we have. We’re trying to change what’s considered the standard for a restaurant. Maybe it’s right that producers, not restaurants, should be the ones leading us. Based on what producers and nature provide, we adapt.

It’s more difficult, but it’s also much more stimulating. And it makes us feel good — with ourselves and with society. That’s why, of course, we’re offering less. Because not everything is always available. If something isn’t available, we don’t have to force it onto the menu — we can do without and find alternatives.

We’ve halved the size of the menu — we went from almost 30 savoury dishes to fewer than 20. That alone means less meat is being used. And when we do use animals, we work to use every possible part, in several ways. The focus is to try to use all the possible parts of the animal, while also following what the producer can supply.

So there has to be constant dialogue with the supplier, both about the parts of the animal that are less well known — which maybe require a bit more experience and knowledge — but which then allow you to have fun, to rediscover preparations that maybe 50, 60, 70 years ago were the norm, and were lost in the search for cuts that are a bit more famous and more recognisable to the customer. Instead of tenderloin or cuts that stick in the mind, we try to propose something different — maybe less commercial, but more stimulating.

Another interesting aspect: perhaps it’s right to say ‘less’, but in reality, yes, it’s less — and maybe also much more — because a customer might come to the restaurant and the following week find three, four, five different dishes. So, the offering is much more varied over time. On the day itself, the menu has fewer dishes, but the next day you might find it completely different. So, it’s not really [that it’s] less and it stays less — it’s more varied.

Lucia: Would you like to tell us about some fun and creative ways that you use the whole animal and celebrate vegetables more on the menu?

Fabio and Vincenzo: We certainly began the path by trying to use the poorer parts of the animals. And at least as far as I’m concerned on the kitchen side, the most fun thing is to return to traditions — so we actually start from historical recipes and gradually transform them, going back to everything that is truly Italian tradition — not necessarily Piedmontese, but a bit regional.

We’ve also had the good fortune of having a slightly varied team — not all Piedmontese. We have people working for us who come from different parts of Italy, so there’s always a little extra that someone can add. In parallel, we try to add the vegetable part as much as possible — not staying too much in the traditional, but looking for something more playful, with various techniques, and adding a little ‘extra’ that today it’s right to add, but which doesn’t excessively overturn the finished dish.

We always try to make sure it is recognisable, above all in terms of taste — that the customer recognises the dishes, recognises what they’re eating — but in a slightly more sustainable perspective. Maybe we remove something that really isn’t very sustainable, but we add something that can be functional to the dish.

Many times, it also happens that we find dishes that have an animal protein inside, that maybe actually started from the vegetable ingredient. You have the idea that you start from a vegetable that our garden gives us, and then you associate a taste of meat that actually pairs well. The dish doesn’t always have to start from meat, with vegetables just added on to make it a little bit more complete — meat can also simply be an ingredient added to a dish.

It often happens that we have dishes that contain animal products — fish, meat, whatever — that in reality were born to be good even without them. In their vegetarian nature, they manage to be very tasty and very good, where meat and fish become an extra ingredient for flavour, but even if it’s taken out it does not take anything actually important away from the dish.

I remember a dish we did this winter which started out to be with a piece of beef with a side of leeks, fontina and hazelnuts. In the end, the beef was removed and the dish remained, and it was a success. So ,we don’t necessarily always have to start from the protein and then add something. We like also to say: let’s start from the vegetable and see what we can do. It isn’t always necessary to add the protein. Sometimes we think: if we want to add a protein, we first go through legumes and only then go to animal protein. Mushrooms too — they’re two very important ingredients to add layers, to add depth of flavour to dishes. They can be very valuable for creating the complexity of a dish, or to add depth without always having to rely on meat.

Lucia: You’re really describing a change of mentality — giving centrality to vegetables, starting from vegetables — which I think is very interesting. How is your work received by customers?

Fabio and Vincenzo: It always depends on how you present it. There are customers who are really looking for this philosophy, and others who may have been a bit frightened by the aggressive communication of recent years. Our goal is to remove these barriers that force people to choose sides. We have our own vegetables and work with amazing producers, but at the end of the day our focus is to serve good food — food that tastes great, whatever the main ingredient is.

There are hundreds of types of restaurants out there — some only meat, some only veg-led, some only fish. Everyone has the opportunity to choose where to go. What we want at Casa Format is for anyone who comes here to find something they like, without it being a stressful search. Everyone at the table should have the opportunity to find one or more dishes that fit their tastes.

On our side, we’re always available to adjust or interpret a dish so this happens. Dishes that are born with vegetables as the protagonist can have an animal protein added. Dishes born with meat or fish as the protagonist can often become vegetarian without a problem — because today we have an endless range of flavours from vegetables, spices and condiments. When customers understand this, they see it as a strength. They know that when they come here, they will find something they like, without worrying that the person they’re dining with will have the opposite problem.

Communication plays an important role here. Even just saying the word ‘sustainability’ — some people are very enthusiastic, others are wary. When a word is repeated too many times, it can lose its usefulness. For us, the aim is to use all the words that mean sustainability — whether that’s talking about producers, about seasonality, about reducing waste. Each of those words might help a customer connect without even realising they are making a sustainable choice. It’s so important not to get caught in polarising conversations. Fundamentally, we’re offering a beautiful plate of food in a beautiful place, where everyone can find something they enjoy. When a word like ‘sustainable’ starts to create division, it no longer helps the conversation. Instead, we can talk about how delicious the food is, or about the great products from great farmers — that elevates the conversation rather than shutting it down.

Lucia: That’s a very important point about communication. We often have traditional dishes that happen to be vegetarian, but because they’re traditional, no one even asks whether they are vegetarian or not.

Fabio and Vincenzo: Exactly. Think of a Caprese — famous all over the world. People eat Caprese because they feel like eating tomato and mozzarella. No one worries about whether it’s vegetarian. The other day we were looking at our staff meal plan, which is followed by a nutritionist. During dinner, I suddenly realised and said out loud, “Today we ate vegetarian all day, without even noticing it."

You don’t think about it when you eat well. You follow your diet, maybe have a nice salad from the garden, prepared well — and you say, “Okay, I don’t mind if I’ve eaten vegetarian today, because I’ve eaten well.” In the end, it all starts from taste. If the taste is there, the dish is already complete.

Lucia: Let’s talk a bit about your garden here behind us. How does it influence the menu offering?

Fabio and Vincenzo: The vegetable garden is the foundation of the restaurant — it’s so close to us, and it’s where we start. Of course, having a garden means we follow seasonality as much as possible. Though lately, things have shifted. Some products that used to be normal in April now arrive in June. Climate change has moved everything around.

That can be difficult for customers to understand, because in supermarkets you still find those products in the ‘right’ seasons, or even all year round. But here we’re more closely tied to the real rhythm of nature. For us, that’s a strength. Nature gives us the right indications.

From a creative point of view, it’s fun, too — because from one week to the next you find something you didn’t expect. “Today, there’s this — okay, let’s go with it.” The garden dictates the menu. More than writing a menu, it sets the rhythm for the restaurant.

Lucia: Do you find that seeing the plants growing inspires you to use all parts of them — the way you were talking earlier about using all parts of an animal?

Fabio and Vincenzo: Yes, exactly. Sometimes with a plant you don’t just eat the fruit, but also the flower, the leaf, sometimes even the root. This gives us a 360-degree view, the chance to experiment. It enriches the menu.

The same thing happens with what are called ‘weeds’. Spontaneous plants grow in our garden, and they become ingredients, sometimes even the protagonists of a dish. These are plants our grandparents used to pick and eat because they were everywhere in the fields. But over time they became enemies of the ‘perfect’ clean garden. Rediscovering them is rediscovering tradition — and rediscovering flavours that might be unfamiliar to customers but are actually part of Italian gastronomy.

The aim is to experiment, to talk to people who are knowledgeable in both agriculture and cooking, and to understand how many uses we can find for one plant. Take the courgette: we can use the flowers, the fruit, the leaf. There are many other cases. Interpreting the garden is what allows us to bring it to life — it sets the tempo for us.

Often, Vincenzo might have an idea for a dish and talk to Lorenzo, who takes care of the garden, and Lorenzo will say, “Sorry, not possible yet.” Or a week later he’ll come back and say, “We already have 300kg of potatoes — do you want to think of something?” It’s stimulating because you have to be responsive — sometimes planning long-term, sometimes adapting instantly to what’s available. That makes life more fun in the kitchen, but also for us in the dining room. It’s always new — new ingredients to learn about and communicate to customers. It’s always something to explore.

Lucia: I think it’s also interesting for customers, no? Finding purslane on the menu, or courgette leaves — they learn through eating. Do you think there’s an educational aspect to this?

Fabio and Vincenzo: Yes, definitely. In restaurants it works — customers are happy to rediscover these things, and then they find them again elsewhere. At home, it’s still a bit harder to bring back these habits, but it’s the right path.

We’re also seeing more people returning to stalls and farmers’ markets, being curious, asking questions, not demanding everything. If a product isn’t available, they choose something else. Education takes time, but progress has been made. And it’s only right that all of us put in the work to make sure things move in the right direction.

It would be nice if producers took the lead more. If they say, “This is what’s available,” then we interpret it. Restaurants become the link between producers and the final consumer. In Turin, there are many local markets, which give alternatives to big retailers and their bagged salads. Instead, you can discover territorial products that are very interesting.

From the customer side, there’s a generational difference. Older generations often recognise ingredients straight away and are happy to see young people bringing them back. But some of the middle generations are more distant from this kind of cooking. Paradoxically, they might be familiar with Asian ingredients but have never heard of something local, because of how food communication has developed. For us, it’s nice to act as a bridge — showing what a vegetable garden can offer, instead of leaning on supermarket products that don’t even belong to our area.

Lucia: What would you recommend to chefs and restaurants who are listening to this conversation and want to move toward more veg-led cooking, with less but better meat?

Fabio: My advice is: just do it. Don’t focus on the problems. If your goal is to cook delicious dishes, the rest follows. Communicating something you believe in is always easier than forcing something you don’t believe in. If you want to make changes, don’t be afraid. Talk to producers, get their advice, follow people who are competent, and don’t let fear stop you from pursuing your goal.

Vincenzo: The first phase can be difficult. You leave your comfort zone, and it means more structured work — contacting several suppliers instead of just one who gives you everything. It takes more time, but after a while it becomes natural. For us, starting small helped. You don’t need to change your whole menu in one day. Start with reducing waste, recovering what you would throw away. Then gradually do a little more, add more vegetables, reduce some meat. It’s a mentality shift. Start with no waste — that alone can change your approach and make everything easier.

Of course, it takes time, but it can be done. And once you push through the first difficulties, you discover a world of opportunities. You talk to people in your area, you learn more about ingredients, and that’s very stimulating.

Juliane: Brilliant.

Lucia: Brilliant. Thank you Fabio, thank you Vincenzo, thank you Juliane. And thank you all for your hospitality — it was really great to be here with you and chat.

Fabio and Vincenzo: Thank you!